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Silver Fic
... giving Ianto the key to Jack's happiness since 2009
Game: Spot the CoE Plot Holes! 
14th-Sep-2009 12:26 pm
This started in another thread ... thought maybe you'd all like to join in. Warnings for Honest Children of Earth Bashing.




Spot the Plot Holes!





Day One

An SUV with a triple deadlock seal is nicked by some chavs when the Doctor isn't able to unlock deadlock seals with his sonic screwdriver. - caz251 - I think the chavs bricked the windows. Y'know ... the bulletproof windows that bullets can't get through but apparently bricks can? The magic ones? [- Silver]

How come, in Countrycide Ianto can track the SUV using his PDA ... but with the entire Hub at his disposal doesn't even bother?

Why was Rhys in a van at that time in the morning? If he was on his way to work, he'd be in his car. He's transport manager - he wouldn't be in a van at that time of the morning (if at all). - caz251

Ianto tells his sister that it's just Jack he's attracted to, when in previous Torchwood books he's commented on the sexual attractiveness of other men, made out with other men and in The Twilight Streets openly referred to himself as bisexual.

Why does Bridget Spears give Lois (a temp, who has her first day at the office) her password, that gives Lois access to all the super secret government stuff including killing orders?
Even if it was necessary in the beginnig, how can Bridget not change the password later on? - sawyer4kate

Presumably the government wanted to kill Jack because he knew about and participated in the 1965 incident. But, if Jack hadn't spoken about before, why did they assume he would now? Why would they want to kill the planet's best chance of defeating its enemy? - sophyl

If Jack inexplicably had to be killed, why was it necessary to kill Gwen and Ianto? Wouldn't an alien-fighting organization be a help rather than a hindrance in this situation? - sophyl

Hello, remember the rift, that volatile entity the hub is centered on? Wouldn't a Big Spiky Metal Bomb being detonated on top of it cause a massive crater where Cardiff used to be or at the very least, an enormous hole right through the middle of time and space? - sophyl

Psst, Bridget, here is a super top secret order to assassinate everyone who knew about the 1965 government deal with the aliens, so make sure you order the hit in an e-mail sent under your username. - sophyl

Jack couldn't feel that Big Spiky Metal Bomb in his stomach - really? WTF? Did you see the size of that thing on the scan?

Big Spiky Metal Bomb ... with a two mile blast radius that in reality would have killed Ianto on Day One, (what with him being only a few meters away) and most of the Plass. with about 4 seconds left, Ianto isn't really even at the top of the lift and only walks away with a scratch. He's not sent flying through the air or have broken bones or anything. - diggybear

Why did all the London buses have "Arriva Wales" public travel services logos on the side?

After the explosion, we see Gwen gets a tongue of fire whipping up right in her face and she falls back afterwards. Beginning of day 2, she has no burns on her face, just trouble with her vision and can't hear anything.

I am sorrym but someone who was in such close proximity to fire would have mark after that (hair burn etc) - jpren678


Day Two

Should we even bother to mention how Gwen and Ianto miraculously evaded the snipers? - alinoradesancto

We saw at the end of Day One that Johnson and her men were sat in a vehicle rather close to the Plass - so where was she when Ianto and Gwen surfaced from the two-mile blast radius bomb that somehow didn't kill them?

We know from previous episodes of TW that there's a huge mortuary/morgue full of dead ex-Torchies, aliens, weevils, etc, at the hub. So after the huge bomb blast, the area should have been littered with body parts, human and non-human - not just Jack's. - flobberchops

Jack's body parts - so the bits they found they put in a body bag and they re-knit themselves into a new Jack. So what did the bits of body they didn't find do? Did they also grow into new Jacks - are there multiple Jacks now running around generated from all the bits? - flobberchops

Ianto, using only a number plate and (his sister's laptop managed to track down a vehicle but yet again failed to search for the SUV? - alinoradesancto

Ianto was far enough away that he had to use binoculars to see what was going on but could still hear Jack scream? (And know it was Jack?) - alinoradesancto

The concrete cell took an afternoon to dry solid, when a much thinner pavement takes about a day, and a poured concrete wall about - oh - three?

Look at the size of the cell Jack was in via the CCTV and compare it to the size of the concrete slab Ianto ripped out of the wall. Jack would have had to be standing up in the cell for it to be shaped that way. - helenscho

Said concrete block could also be lifted by an 8 tonne limit tractor [despite weighing in the region of 40 - no offence Mr. Barrowman.]

How would Ianto know the depth and height of the foundations behind the wall to get the aim of the fork lift right and not break the prongs on the concrete block (or the bricks, for that matter ...)

The tractor not falling off the edge of the quarry that didn't appear in any ariel shots of the vicinity, but must have been close because they remained miraculously uncaptured ...

Ianto drops the concrete slab containing Jack into the quarry, freeing him. Realistically speaking, Jack should have been pulled apart once again since the hard concrete having been adhered to the soft tissue wouldn't simply have detached. - there's also the fact that being encased in concrete like that sucks all the water from your body and leaves burns. - ice_whisper

why didn't Jack have any concrete in his orifices? It might not be glamourous to watch, but JB pulling a concrete stick out of his arse would've been wonderfully realistic after being trapped in a Magi-Dry© concrete cell ...

The atmosphere pumped into the sealed chamber built to 456 instructions contains a number of poisonous gasses, including "12% fluorine". Fluorine, (atomic number 8) is the only gas more reactive than oxygen; flammable substances exposed to pure fluorine at room temperature are likely to burst into flame. It is quite likely that the mixture described might well explode as soon as it was mixed.

Since this organization is actively hunting down Torchwood, wouldn't the guard at the gate recognize Gwen? - sophyl

A forklift carrying a 40-ton Jack-in-the-Block of miraculously quick-drying cement does not move very fast. Johnson and her team could probably catch up to it while walking. - sophyl

After Rhys moved the oil tanker with its keys conveniently left in the ignition across the road, he blew it up with a hand gun, thereby setting the oil on fire. Could not happen. Unless Rhys was using special hollow point, armour piercing bullets and one hell of a big gun. There have actually been papers written on this stale, overused-by-unimaginative-writers trope. - sophyl

World's slowest car chase - baddies in souped-up sedan can't catch up with a jcb doing about 8 miles an hour before they blow up the tanker (which couldn't actually be blown up by a handgun) that blocks the baddies path? Also, why didn't aforementioned baddies just drive round blazing tanker on the huge grass verges that were on either side of blazing tanker in the road. - flobberchops - Because of the "Keep off the Grass sign"> - ffrengig_moron - [sorry, thought it was funny ... - Silver]

There were sentries at the gate on the way in, so why didn't they stop Torchwood on their way out? - sophyl




Day Three


Pertaining to the warehouse ...

1. Where did they get the sofa?

2. And the office chairs/desks

3. Oil drums? Okay ...

4. I know it was blurry ... but had they somehow got a kitchen?

5. ... and pots and pans? *beans*

6. Speaking of breaking in ... where did Ianto manage to get his Crowbar of Doom?

7. How did they get sufficient electrity and Internet access in a derelict warehouse? - helenscho

8. How did Jack get clean? How was there running water in the abandoned warehouse? I'm sure utility companies tend to shut down these supplies if no one is paying for them. - joymaro



If they keep track of their tech, why didn't someone notice the contact lenses were missing before Gwen showed up with them? It did seem like she had them for a while - diggybear

How was Lois (a mere secretary) allowed to get so close to the 456 wearing the contact lenses etc without someone telling her to back away...and why was she allowed in the room at all? - helenscho

If I recall Reset correctly (it's been awhile though, so this might be bogus), Team!Torchwood were able to hear what Copley and the Nurse were saying to Martha...so why did they only have clumsy lip-reading software after that? - magicmalcom

Why would Gwen (ex-policewoman) need to teach Jack (ex-intergalatical conman) and Ianto (ex-petty thief and cyberwoman smuggler) how to be a criminal? - alinoradesancto

Alice knew enough to not use her own phone to ask about Jack but then only went outside her own house to make the call? - alinoradesancto

Although at the beginning of the episode Jack appears in borrowed clothing, he has apparently still managed to hang onto his own boots despite apparently previously losing everything.




Day Four

Six words: Virus. Released. From. Air. Tight. Tank.

How come Dekker (or whatever his name, the bastard who was sooo happy and in glee about Stephen being killed) survived? Wasn't the poison suppose to be spontaneous, as in: "It's too late, I already breathed it" fatal. He surely breathed some before putting those protecting clothes...? - elanor12

The man who prepares for any and every eventuality, walks into a room housing a hostile alien terducken encased in a poison filled tank, with just a handgun as a show of support for the man who may or may not be his boyfriend. No gas mask just in case the bullets from his handgun actually manage to shatter the bullet-proof glass and release the poisonous air into the room. No, sorry, don't buy it. - sophyl

Also, didn't Jack know enough about aliens and the probable atmosphere of the tank to realize that shooting at it, with the intention to break it, while Ianto was in the room, was a very very bad idea??? - joymaro

Viruses do not kill immediately. Repeat, viruses do not kill immediately. That is a physical impossibility against all the laws of nature. It cannot happen. Viruses infect the body, mutate, attack cells and then kill the host. At the most, Ianto and everyone else at Thames House should be in quarantine somewhere while a cure is sought. - sophyl

After killing everyone, the virus just disappeared so it was almost immediately safe for anyone else to enter the building? - sophyl

And if the 456 killed everyone on the planet, wouldn't they also be killing their one chance to acquire more of their drug? - sophyl

Oh and how did Ianto get in there without protection? They knew the 456 had threatened before with poison, and they didn't think to protect themselve before saying "You're leaving or it's war"? Come on! It's Ianto! Always prepared! - elanor12



Day Five

Why the hell does Andy, who has never even met Ianto (at least on TV) ask Gwen if he was gay? Is that really the first thing on his mind while he is on his way to tell the family about Ianto´s death? - sawyer4kate

ohnson's crew have been monitoring Torchwood and its computer system for years? Without Tosh noticing? My arse they did. - [Unknown LJ tag] - - They watched but obviously didn't know much about the Hub because they had to give Jack 5 minutes to make sure he was inside properly to blow it up. - diggybear

Exactly how did Spears manage to record anything with the lenses when there was absolutely no computer or laptop working at that moment to record anything??? Unless of course the lenses have an internal hd or something... which I highly doubt. You'd still have to press "rec" somewhere - di_br

The army stop chasing Gwen, Rhys and children despite the 456 only just being destroyed - surely they wouldn't have recieved the order yet. - hitchhikingon

So ... Jack sends a sound signal to destroy the 456, right? So ... there should be more 456 in big Millions of Children Carrying Space Ships in the sky right? Especially since sound - even Magic Child Singing in Falsetto Sound - can't actually travel in space ... - kholran


General/Overall

MARTHA?! OMG WHERE THE HELL WAS MARTHA DURING ALL OF THIS? DID SHE NOT TRY TO CALL THE DOCTOR? - joymaro

UNIT were ready to blow up the whole planet with the Osterhagen Key when the Dalek's arrived on Dr Who, but here they just shrugged their shoulders and did nothing? - flobberchops

So they only way the 456 can come down and threaten you is if you build them an airtight glass chamber for them to live in. Here's an idea - don't build the chamber! - flobberchops

They blew up TW to keep Jack quiet and preserve their secret doing sin 1965. What made them think the aliens would keep quiet about 1965? - flobberchops

What about the magic self-cleaning glass of the 456's tank? The 456 sneezes all over the place every 5 seconds only for it to instantly disappear... - i_bananas

Why did the 456 need the kids to be rounded up, when they could have just beamed/used their Magic Fire of Teleportation© to pick them up from their playgrounds using in-depth knowledge of world time zones and kiddies' play times?

Everyone in the world was in complete compliance with the UK - wtf? Even Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Korea? Really?? They just agreed to go with what us Brits were telling them to do? Talk about neglect of current affairs in the oh-so-real world of Torchwood: Children of Earth. I mean ... even France hates us, and we're not at war/ political conflict with them!!

For two seasons, we've been told that "the 21st century is when everything changes," and we've believed it because Jack, a time agent from the 51st century knows what is going to happen in our time. I can accept that he doesn't know small events such as cannibals, fairies, sleeper agents, night travelers and even Abbadon, but an event so large that every politician, bureaucrat, soldier/marine and government in the world is a willing participant (and how realistic is that) should have made the history books. If the entire premise of Torchwood is to be believed, then Jack should have known about the 456, he should have seen them coming. - sophyl

Why did the scar on Ianto's cheek never start to scab? Even after 3 days, it would have got at least a little crusty - helenscho - The only reason I medically think for this is that he had some kind of blood illness that no one knew about (even the writers!). Like leukemia or AIDS. Delightful. [- Silver]

NOTE: Ianto's scar stays bright red to draw attention to it. Just as all of the bender, gay boy, taking it up the ass, pervert, who's the queer, I can smell it on him references, a scar shaped exactly like a lambda, the international symbol for gay pride, was used to draw attention to the fact Ianto was gay/bi/it's just Jack. - sophyl








As before, add your suggestions here! Tell your Torchwood buddies and lets see how many we get ...

Contest any 'plot holes' here too. If you can think of an explanation for them (that's viable beyond 'A WIZARD DID IT!') just post it here and I'll see whether or not I'll change/ remove it.

Maybe we could do a thread for S1/S2 plot holes? We have had to ignore quite a few ... :-P
Comments 
14th-Sep-2009 11:53 am (UTC)
Day One - An SUV with a triple deadlock seal is nicked by some chavs when the Doctor isn't able to unlock deadlock seals with his sonic screwdriver.

Day One - Why was Rhys in a van at that time in the morning, he says later in COE that the car is new, if he was on his way to work he'd be in it. He's transport manager he wouldn't be in a van at that time of the morning if at all.

Day One- Ianto tells his sister that it's just Jack when in previous Torchwood books, can't remember which one or if its even classed as canon, that he's bisexual.

That's just a few I have I'll think of more later need to get ready for uni.
14th-Sep-2009 11:58 am (UTC)
God I giggled so much reading these, and that was rather awkward as right now, even as i'm typing, I'm sat next to one of my teachers as i'm in the photography department ICT room at college reading this hahaha! She's yet to notice however, so i'm safe!

I think you should definately do a plot hole post for S1 and S2 as well! :P
14th-Sep-2009 12:05 pm (UTC)
Quick question - which is probably a really stupid one and you'll all think I'm dense but....On Day Two who was the other body in the place where they had Jack encased in concrete? I know one was the Dr bloke who I was just starting to like before he shot Jack (nasty man) but I can't work out who the other bloke was. And try as I might I can't remember any other significant deaths that they might need to hide the body. As soon as I get an answer to this I'm sure I'll slap myself for being so blind but please help me until then!
14th-Sep-2009 12:09 pm (UTC)
I honestly can't remember. Maybe the body was just a cell filler for Gwen and Rhys to get the wrong cell again?

OO! Was it the Chinese man Rupesh killed? Dammit - why did I leave my DVDs in Chester (aside from the fact they're a pile of crap ... [not the S1 & 2 ones ... I remembered to bring those with me *sigh the good ol' days!])
14th-Sep-2009 12:19 pm (UTC)
My question is, why didn't Jack and Ianto just sneak off when Rhys didn't go!
That fucking warehouse was huge!

And they forgot about Ianto and Providence Park. That's what really pisses me off.

And yeah, AIR TIGHT.
14th-Sep-2009 12:57 pm (UTC)
If they had snuck off and engaged in character/relationship development, then Ianto wouldn't have found those faces on the government database so that Jack could go all distant and runny-away. ¬_¬ I'd vote for sneaking off, though. Far more interesting than the plot.


And they remembered Ianto long enough to have an excuse to send Gwen back to Wales and for Andy to comment on his sexuality. Then there was one mention of him at the end when Jack was doing his 'I've lived so many lives' speech. That's it for Ianto in Day Five. Three mentions for the most beloved character. THREE. THREE
14th-Sep-2009 12:32 pm (UTC)
Does it really take that long to get from Cardiff to London? I live in Cumbria and it took us 5ish hours to get to Cardiff a couple of years ago (allowing for a stop at my mother-in-laws in Deeside) I don't drive though so what do I know!
14th-Sep-2009 12:52 pm (UTC)
To get from Cardiff you have to drive north, then east then south east. Even if you use Severn Bridge, there's still the motorway systems and B roads to navigate. It takes a helluva lot longer than it should, at any rate.
14th-Sep-2009 01:54 pm (UTC)
Hmm..rebutting the 'crates of alien artefacts' point..didn't Ianto say the warehouse was abandoned by Torchwood One? Therefore there WOULD be no alien stuff? (going by months old memory, anyway..)

Day One
Should we even bother to mention how Gwen and Ianto miraculously evaded the snipers?

Day Two
How about how Ianto, using only a number plate and (his sister's?) laptop managed to track down a vehicle but yet again failed to search for the SUV?

Ianto was far enough away that he had to use binoculars to see what was going on but could still hear Jack scream? (And know it was Jack?)

Day Three
Sorry...why is Gwen (ex-policewoman) teaching Jack (ex-intergalatical conman) and Ianto (ex-petty thief and cyberwoman smuggler) how to be a criminal?
How did Jack even pass for a waiter in his trackies? And then why did he (ex-conman) just run so suspiciously away?

Alice knew enough to not use her own phone to ask about Jack but then only went outside her own house to make the call?

Where did Ianto get Jack's new/old clothes from? Don't tell me that coat is so easy to find...

Oh! And those contact lenses? The Torchwood ones? Why can't they talk to Lois when they could talk to Martha (in emergencies) when she had the original(?) ones?

I have to say..I can't think of many more because my brain has repressed the memories..(hence why many of the ones I HAVE pulled out are..well, sort of petty..)
14th-Sep-2009 02:05 pm (UTC)
I always read it as the warehouse was abandoned because no one was left after Canary Wharf to give a damn. If someone else contests the point, I shall remove it :)

And Ianto Jones: Cyberwoman Smuggler should be the name of some kind of spin off.

The coats are actually quite easy to find in places like London - there's a lot of surplus stores and replica uniform places (for costuming etc) and in a place like London, they're easy shops to find.

And I don't remember them being able to talk to Martha other than the text-in-the eyes thing, which they did with Lois.

14th-Sep-2009 02:21 pm (UTC)
LOL!

let's just face it, CoE is one huge plot hole ;)


The only reason I medically think for this is that he had some kind of blood illness that no one knew about (even the writers!). Like leukemia or AIDS. Delightful

diabetic + a blood thinning drug?

but then again he wouldn't be aloud to eat stuff like pizza ;)



Edited at 2009-09-14 02:22 pm (UTC)
14th-Sep-2009 03:11 pm (UTC)
If he was diabetic, I think we'd have known. As you said - his eating habits would be vastly different and [depending on the type of diabetes he had] they probably would have used his need for insulin as a plot device or something.

Nahhhh he wasn't ill. He just had a make up artist who forgot that scratches generally scab over in less than half an hour ...
14th-Sep-2009 02:22 pm (UTC)
I have nothing to add, but these made me giggle. I could probably find a few if I ever actually re-watched COE, but other than Ianto's awesome moments, I have no desire to. lol
14th-Sep-2009 02:41 pm (UTC)
Hi, I love this game. :)

What about these:

Why does Bridget Spears give Lois (a temp, who has her first day at the office) her password, that gives Lois access to all the super secret government stuff including killing orders?
Even if it was necessary in the beginnig, how can Bridget not change the password later on?

Why the hell does Andy, who has never even met Ianto (at least on TV) ask Gwen if he was gay? Is that really the first thing on his mind while he is on his way to tell the family about Ianto´s death?
14th-Sep-2009 02:53 pm (UTC)
you reaally need to send this to the bbc and highlight the mistakes with the big letters THE DOCTOR WOULD HAVE GOT THERE TO HELP and IANTO DEATH NEVER HAPPEND!!!! ohhhhhhh one other idea for iantos cut depending on how deep it was or if he kept catching it while he was on the run that can take time for healing i think anyway i'm not sure but hadn't notice the buses hahaha
14th-Sep-2009 03:08 pm (UTC)
The blood would have clotted and scabbed in an hour or so, even if he kept catching it - and he was only on the run in day two. The rest of the time he was in the warehouse, shopping or going to places and getting killed.

I noticed the buses on first viewing - but thought I might be able to let it slide if the rest of the miniseries was okay .... *hmph*
14th-Sep-2009 03:01 pm (UTC)
You had me giggling like a madwoman with this.

How come Decker (or whatever his name, the bastard who was sooo happy and in glee about Stephen being killed) survived? Wasn't the poison suppose to be spontanuous, as in: "It's too late, I already breath it" fatal. He surely breathed some before putting those protecting clothes...

Oh and how come did Ianto get in there without protection? They knew the 456 had threatened before with poison, and they didn't think to protect themselve before saying "You're leaving or it's war"? Come on! It's Ianto! Always prepared!
14th-Sep-2009 06:00 pm (UTC)
Oh! And those contact lenses? The Torchwood ones? Why can't they talk to Lois when they could talk to Martha (in emergencies) when she had the original(?) ones

Whilst Jack did indeed talk to Contact-Lense-Wearing!Martha during Reset, he needed a microphone to do so. Presumably they didn't steal one along with the laptops and stuff.

However, if I recall Reset correctly (it's been awhile though, so this might be bogus), Team!Torchwood were able to hear what Copley and the Nurse were saying to Martha...so why did they only have clumsy lip-reading software after that?
14th-Sep-2009 09:26 pm (UTC)
'so why did they only have clumsy lip-reading software after that?'


The Hub was blown up, along with other hardware (not software) that probably enabled that.
(Deleted comment)
(Deleted comment)
14th-Sep-2009 07:32 pm (UTC)
Time lines are all just possibilities, one simple change and/or decision can cause a vast divergence. Jack's very presence is changing the future. I don't think Jack cares one way or another, overall, but the Doctor definitely would. And yet, the Doctor has and will interfer...sometimes.

I've always wondered just how far is allowable? The Doctor interfers with the alien at Pompeii, but didn't want to save the family.

The thing that is coming in the darkness is a long held theme in both Doctor Who and Torchwood, aired by the dead and the living. I can't see the 456 as meeting that description, not really, so what comes next?
14th-Sep-2009 07:33 pm (UTC)
I just found this and I love it!

You've picked up on the one thing that Andy did that really annoyed me in Day 5 - why was that the question Andy needed to ask, was he planning to introduce himself and say "your gay brother is dead"? Not a plot hole just a very out of place moment.
General plot hole - I'm assuming the weevils and Rift related anomalies all took a holiday during CoE. Either that or Torchwood 3 had been wasting their time and it didn't really matter if they were there or not :-(

PS I think you were taken the scenic route from Cardiff to London. From Cardiff Bay it's about 15mins drive to the A48(M) then take that straight onto the M4 and just stay on the M4 all the way to London. It's probably 3.5 hours to drive unless the traffic is really bad.
10th-Dec-2009 07:52 am (UTC)
Anonymous
I don't know whether anyone will see this - it's an old thread and I just found it. About the "Why did Andy ask whether Ianto was gay?" It put me in mind of an Alan Turing fiction/documentary where he is being hassled by the police and he says something like: I thought my work during the war was the most important thing I did, but it turns out that what I did in bed afterwards is...

So my take: it was one more piece of anti-lgbt crap in CoE: If you aren't het, your sexual orientation is the most important thing about you. Doesn't matter what good you've done, or what you accomplish in your life, your sexual orientation is what folks will focus on. A true message of hope. Not.

If we get a Season 4, I hope that at least it's less "hets rule" than CoE. I hated that with a passion. And, frankly, I'm disappointed in JB for (apparently enthusiastically) participating.
Subject Laziness - Anonymous - Expand
Subject Laziness - Anonymous - Expand
14th-Sep-2009 07:59 pm (UTC)
Day One/ the rest of the series : a 1 mile radius bomb explodes a few meters at most from a machine which has a certain measure of control over a Rift in Time and Space, and nothing happens? While a smaller bomb thrown into it, meaning it could have gotten anywhere by the time it actually went boom, caused the world to go back 12 hours?

Another one, although I'm no expert. At the end of Day One, the Hub explodes with Ianto on the invisible lift, the bomb just beneath it. So shouldn't we have a Ianto BBQ, because, hellooo, big ball of fire? And also, an explosion creates a blast of outward force, shouldn't the paving slab, with Ianto (or not) on top, have been projected towards the sky? Either they would have been smashed again the ceiling a nanosecond before it exploded, or they would have had a Team Rocket moment, going towards new adventures and all.
14th-Sep-2009 09:42 pm (UTC)
I wonder if Tosh's time-lock, as seen in 'The Stolen Earth' etc, came into slight effect, dampening the blast from Jack?
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